[Brenda]

This is very cool!

[champy1013]

Sorry Kyle, I think you spent more time on your smilie art than actual vetted research. 75% of the "sources" you posted are right-wing mouthpieces. Forbes? NYPost? TOWNHALL? HAHahahaha. Give me a break. AND MOST ARE OP ED COLUMNS. Sources indeed.

And yes - I'd say the EPA and the fat right-wing mouthpieces are in bed together:
http://www.greenfieldreporter.com/view/ ... the-Scenes

And I've been "outraged" by fracking, the oil sands, deep water drilling, oil exploration in Alaska, etc, etc, etc for YEARS. It's now when it's coming so close to our own backyards that I decide to really make a stand. Not because I'm like you and need to have some shrill give me a few right-wing talking points to get all puffed up about. It's clear you are willing to sell out the future for a few dollars today. What - do you have family land in NY that you stand to get rich on? Nice. I hope your ancestors curse you once you helped contribute to the destruction of wild places.

Why are you on this website? Love of nature? Love of wild places? You in the right-wing never cease to amaze me. So Orwellian that you can hold two conflicting ideals in your head and accept them both.

[Matt]

this is a great debate that may only be resolved years after fracking destroys or benefits (or does both to NY), but in the meantime, let's enjoy that we can debate this issue and keep it non-personal and friendly. I'm reading all. It's interesting stuff. It's even more interesting on my second bottle of "Great Wall" wine, which I'm sure is watered down with fracking chemicals.

[Brenda]

It is inconceivable to me that there's even a debate about it at this point.

[cascade]

Everyone on this forum uses fuel (gas ,electric, oil, propane etc). They all have some effect on the environment. The anger some of you have is amazing. If you are so concerned maybe you should stop using the fuels you don't want captured. I am for clean air & water. I also like lights that turn on when I want them & gas in my car when I want to go somewhere.
I know I am in the minority on most issues on this list, one of the reasons I don't participate much anymore. There is room for debate on this issue. I like Kyle think this can be done safely if done right. Doesn't mean there will never be a problem.
The following link is not one sided & not from a right wing nut case.


HANDWRITTEN SIGN IN THE DOCUMENTARY GASLAND, 2010

It's an iconic image, captured in the 2010 Academy Award—nominated documentary GasLand. A Colorado man holds a flame to his kitchen faucet and turns on the water. The pipes rattle and hiss, and suddenly a ball of fire erupts. It appears a damning indictment of the gas drilling nearby. But Colorado officials determined the gas wells weren't to blame; instead, the homeowner's own water well had been drilled into a naturally occurring pocket of methane. Nonetheless, up to 50 layers of natural gas can occur between the surface and deep shale formations, and methane from these shallow deposits has intruded on groundwater near fracking sites. In May, Pennsylvania officials fined Chesapeake Energy $1 million for contaminating the water supplies of 16 families in Bradford County. Because the company had not properly cemented its boreholes, gas migrated up along the outside of the well, between the rock and steel casing, into aquifers. The problem can be corrected by using stronger cement and processing casings to create a better bond, ensuring an impermeable seal.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/coal-oil-gas/top-10-myths-about-natural-gas-drilling-6386593#slide-1

[Brenda]

Everyone on this forum uses fuel (gas ,electric, oil, propane etc). They all have some effect on the environment. The anger some of you have is amazing. If you are so concerned maybe you should stop using the fuels you don't want captured. I am for clean air & water. I also like lights that turn on when I want them & gas in my car when I want to go somewhere.
I know I am in the minority on most issues on this list, one of the reasons I don't participate much anymore. There is room for debate on this issue. I like Kyle think this can be done safely if done right. Doesn't mean there will never be a problem.
The following link is not one sided & not from a right wing nut case.

Yes Charlie, I'm angry and outraged that hydrofracking hasn't yet been banned entirely in NY. The "we all use fuel" defense is used as justification in just about every discussion that I have with pro-frackers. Yes, I use fuel but I'm working toward clean energy solutions rather than compounding the situation. It is hard for me to be civil about this topic. That's why I have stepped away from other discussions about it. I, like champy just don't understand how people can possibly care about NY waters, wildlife, etc. and still condone such a risky practice. Where in NY is it okay to have a "problem" happen? Your backyard or mine? If hydrofracking is allowed in my area it will destroy my livelihood. Over the past thirty years, I've watched the Finger Lakes develop into one of the top tourist destinations in the country. I will fight with everything that I have to protect this area for my grandchildren, and nothing that anyone can say will convince me that hydrofracking should be allowed anywhere in NY.

[hobkyl]

Sorry Kyle, I think you spent more time on your smilie art than actual vetted research. 75% of the "sources" you posted are right-wing mouthpieces. Forbes? NYPost? TOWNHALL? HAHahahaha. Give me a break. AND MOST ARE OP ED COLUMNS. Sources indeed.

Your research stems from what exactly? Gasland? Right-wing, left-wing...blah blah blah. While you may think you know everything about the NG industry, you don't know jack about me. I'll hold my temper and not resort to insults.

And yes - I'd say the EPA and the fat right-wing mouthpieces are in bed together:
http://www.greenfieldreporter.com/view/ ... the-Scenes

Potassium hydroxide?? Really?

And I've been "outraged" by fracking, the oil sands, deep water drilling, oil exploration in Alaska, etc, etc, etc for YEARS. It's now when it's coming so close to our own backyards that I decide to really make a stand. Not because I'm like you and need to have some shrill give me a few right-wing talking points to get all puffed up about. It's clear you are willing to sell out the future for a few dollars today. What - do you have family land in NY that you stand to get rich on? Nice. I hope your ancestors curse you once you helped contribute to the destruction of wild places.

Outraged, yet more than willing to use fossil fuels everyday for work and pleasure. Nimby? So everyone else on this planet can screw off, yet somehow you and your home area are off limits and you still get to enjoy the benefits. Right-wing much? Let's be clear here....you are the one getting puffed up. I made a simple comment about Gasland's credibility. I don't know anyone who owns land where fracking may occur, with the exception of Brenda.

Why are you on this website? Love of nature? Love of wild places? You in the right-wing never cease to amaze me. So Orwellian that you can hold two conflicting ideals in your head and accept them both.

Yet, you believe that you can infinitely use energy and not seek out new methods to create it.


For the record....I enjoy smilie art.

Yes Charlie, I'm angry and outraged that hydrofracking hasn't yet been banned entirely in NY. The "we all use fuel" defense is used as justification in just about every discussion that I have with pro-frackers. Yes, I use fuel but I'm working toward clean energy solutions rather than compounding the situation. It is hard for me to be civil about this topic. That's why I have stepped away from other discussions about it. I, like champy just don't understand how people can possibly care about NY waters, wildlife, etc. and still condone such a risky practice. Where in NY is it okay to have a "problem" happen? Your backyard or mine? If hydrofracking is allowed in my area it will destroy my livelihood. Over the past thirty years, I've watched the Finger Lakes develop into one of the top tourist destinations in the country. I will fight with everything that I have to protect this area for my grandchildren, and nothing that anyone can say will convince me that hydrofracking should be allowed anywhere in NY.

I'd say that it shouldn't be the main arguement, but the "we all use fuel" defense holds some water. As users, we all have to expect that it must be extracted for us to use. It doesn't just come to us free of risk. No disrespect, what are you doing to get clean energy? Is it completely viable for everyone? Is it something that can be applied to the masses via government or private industry? I would say you are jumping to conclusions regarding it ruining your livelihood.

[Mikell]

I don't check out this "general discussion" board often enough...didn't realize what lively discussion goes on here.

For the record...I'm totally against Fracking...and you probably don't want to get ME started because I'm really likely to piss SOMEONE off if I do!

However... I just read another excellent article from NPR.org ...explains in detail what's going on Pennsylvania (and what we can expect in NYS once fracking is widespread here).

http://www.npr.org/2012/05/14/149631363/when-fracking-comes-to-town-it-s-water-water-everywhere

...and if that doesn't put more than a few doubts in your mind about whether we should be pursuing this energy option...
you aren't thinking straight!

When will we ever learn?

"Only when the last tree has died and
The last river has been poisoned and
The last fish has been caught,
Will we realize that
We cannot eat money"
- 19th century Cree proverb

[hobkyl]

I don't check out this "general discussion" board often enough...didn't realize what lively discussion goes on here.

For the record...I'm totally against Fracking...and you probably don't want to get ME started because I'm really likely to piss SOMEONE off if I do!

[Kelly]

I don't check out this "general discussion" board often enough...didn't realize what lively discussion goes on here.

My god. General Discussion is the bomb. It's where personalities are revealed and fun is had. If you don't read General Discussion, how would you ever know that Matt wears boxer briefs or that Jim (backpacker) makes awesome beef jerly or that I think this guy



is hot?

[Mikell]

All righty then...

I'll be back!

[Kelly]

Mmm-Hmmm. I thought you'd come around!

[Matt]

General discussion is my favorite section

and controversial topics are a good regular read for me.

but when they get too personal, i worry that people I like having on the board will get pissed and not come back.

[Brenda]

Alec Baldwin at the Landmark Theatre last night

[hobkyl]

Seeing as my comment on another thread was removed as being "non-relevant crap" despite it being very relevant to someone's "stance" on environmental impacts...I will keep it short and simple here.

Before you call me "simple-minded" Matt, how about you try ever so slightly to carry on a conversation without resorting to name calling, and going off on misguided political tangent. I am more than willing to continue to discuss these issues, as long as you can restrain yourself from having a temper tantrum. Otherwise, I will chalk up my deleted comments as being spot-on.